June 1943

June 1943 (Full Version)

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STEF78 -> June 1943 (11/12/2017 7:02:09 PM)
Turn 103, 3rd june 1943 More fights week after week. Stelteck seems to be testing the strength of my defences... and I'm sure he will grasp any opportunity to destabilize my frontline Near Sochi we are expelled from our defensive line in the mountains... This sector will have to be reinforced... [img]https://i.imgur.com/TdqdmZg.jpg[/img] ... Baku's area is also under heavy attacks. Russian raw force is impressive. No entrenchment left, I will retreat from this hex. [img]https://i.imgur.com/p4LuNmT.jpg[/img] 2 interesting battles South of Moscow. In the first case russians were able to rotate enough corps to launch 3 major attacks and finally win. In the 2nd case a major attack allowed a 20 miles advance through my lines [img]https://i.imgur.com/tOv7WLZ.jpg[/img] of course we counterattack but I feel that my defence isn't well equilibrated. Too strong in the South, too weak in front of Moscow [img]https://i.imgur.com/9m9JEy7.jpg[/img] We order a major reassignment of our mobile forces. The salliant north of lake Elton is evacuated to shorten the frontline [img]https://i.imgur.com/MMFQDFo.jpg[/img]

Stelteck -> RE: June 1943 (11/15/2017 9:47:47 AM)
I heard that there is a rumour about an incoming invasion of southern Europe by western allies (Probably Greece). Maybe some panzer divisions should be sent there. Just a friendly advice.

Telemecus -> RE: June 1943 (11/15/2017 12:44:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stelteck I heard that there is a rumour about an incoming invasion of southern Europe by western allies (Probably Greece). Maybe some panzer divisions should be sent there. Just a friendly advice. I heard it was the Nazi moon base - definitely need Panzers to defend it there [image]local://upfiles/53894/F34534EB81944782909CDE9025117168.jpg[/image]

STEF78 -> June 1943 (11/15/2017 7:08:16 PM)
Turn 104, 10th june 1943 Maybe Stelteck's informations are right. Every week, some squads or divs are sent back to Germany. Annoying... Near Sochi, our troops are fighting at 1 against 8 in men, 1 against 15 in artillery. Not sustainable [img]https://i.imgur.com/9Kqa9uW.jpg[/img] Heavy fights around Baku. I have 2 Pzk fully used to slow russian advance. [img]https://i.imgur.com/RljjOpt.jpg[/img] Between Moscow and Ryazan, russians are picking their attacks. Heavy and one with more than 5 000 guns! And Mytischi has fallen. Nothing good... [img]https://i.imgur.com/tYmdqWR.jpg[/img]

STEF78 -> June 1943 (11/18/2017 9:41:39 AM)
Turn 105, 17th june 1943 Battles on several parts of the front between Moscow and Sochi. Focus on 3 areas. 56th Pzk is overused in front of Moscow. Each unit is fighting at least twice per week. Some Pzd's TOE are close from 60/65% 3 rifle corps Under good command are now difficult to beat [img]https://i.imgur.com/OsTmM4X.jpg[/img] Grinding is on near Baku. Same issue with Pzk's TOE even if I can rotate on the hot spots. [img]https://i.imgur.com/3lzWpgY.jpg[/img] near Sochi, I can only delay russian advance [img]https://i.imgur.com/hiQTuIk.jpg[/img]

STEF78 -> Clash of titans (11/18/2017 9:11:20 PM)
A view of the respective OOB. Both armies are really very strong. German army has reached his maximum with the arrival of numerous heavy panzer, infantry is still good and even if Italy has gone, some Romanians or Hungarn units can be used on the front line. The Lufwaffe is the weakiest part of the axis army as several fighters groups has been sent back to germany. Russian player can create the army he wants and Stelteck has done a major choice with his tank corps. I've never met a russian army with more than 20 000 AFV, even in 1945. it's worrying... artillery and inf are as usual. Summer will be bloody. [img]https://i.imgur.com/HeAY7jo.jpg[/img]

chaos45 -> RE: Clash of titans (11/19/2017 8:15:44 AM)
With that many AFV he will most likely run out of T34 replacements over the long game....as they take massive losses on attacks. Also at Moscow, he is using one of the best soviet Generals so the Soviet forces are getting really good CV additions from leadership. What I found at least in the game several patches ago--a good soviet leader with airstrikes/air support and artillery brigades/divisions in support can win battles in 43/44 at 1:1 if lucky or 1.5:1 most the time vs the germans. As all of the disruption caused by the air strikes/support and massed artillery go a long way esp as they get more experienced.... From the screens it looks like he has a good general, good units, support units, and total air superiority at moscow....your attack was hit by 100 soviet bombers- most likely IL-2s these are nasty once they get experience against germans units in the open which when you attack I believe you are considered in the open for air attack. in 43 soviet bombing against entrenched germans is not that effective...however, what I found was to rotate bomber grps...do a couple softening air strikes, launch ground battle, if you push the German unit back immediately bomb it again twice before further attacks esp if you push the german unit into the open. The disruption and damage from all the repeated air strikes will quickly weaken the unit to being combat in-effective esp if you manage to get in 3+ hexes worth of airstrikes. Even on the german players next turn the unit will be combat ineffective from all the fatigue.

STEF78 -> RE: Clash of titans (11/19/2017 8:37:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chaos45 With that many AFV he will most likely run out of T34 replacements over the long game....as they take massive losses on attacks. I don't remind the production level of T34, but as russian, I always got more than 5000 T34 unused end of 1943. Maybe Stelteck has found the way to use it... quote: Also at Moscow, he is using one of the best soviet Generals so the Soviet forces are getting really good CV additions from leadership. What I found at least in the game several patches ago--a good soviet leader with airstrikes/air support and artillery brigades/divisions in support can win battles in 43/44 at 1:1 if lucky or 1.5:1 most the time vs the germans. As all of the disruption caused by the air strikes/support and massed artillery go a long way esp as they get more experienced.... From the screens it looks like he has a good general, good units, support units, and total air superiority at moscow....your attack was hit by 100 soviet bombers- most likely IL-2s these are nasty once they get experience against germans units in the open which when you attack I believe you are considered in the open for air attack. in 43 soviet bombing against entrenched germans is not that effective...however, what I found was to rotate bomber grps...do a couple softening air strikes, launch ground battle, if you push the German unit back immediately bomb it again twice before further attacks esp if you push the german unit into the open. The disruption and damage from all the repeated air strikes will quickly weaken the unit to being combat in-effective esp if you manage to get in 3+ hexes worth of airstrikes. Even on the german players next turn the unit will be combat ineffective from all the fatigue. Agreed with Il-2 but I was also overoptimistic with this battle. Usually a raw CV ratio of 1.3/1.4 is enough to beat the russians in open terrain but this time my units were tired, disrupted and the russians had a good general. I'm really short of fighters at this stage of the war. I have only 9 groups, not all with 40 fighters and 2 more are scheduled to do back to germany. I will get some night fighters in september but july and august will see an almost full russian air superiority.

Stelteck -> RE: Clash of titans (11/19/2017 11:42:39 AM)
I have around 9000 medium tanks (7000 T-34) in stock with a week production of 350 still the incredible increase of tank looses is real !! But tanks are here to fight and not sleep in stocks. [image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/11/19/03cf6304bcdb31c2c872a49d2efacaea.jpg[/image]

BrianG -> RE: Clash of titans (11/19/2017 4:30:28 PM)
The Valentine tanks seem to get under deployed to units. Same as in my game versus Sillyflower

Stelteck -> RE: Clash of titans (11/19/2017 6:07:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrianG The Valentine tanks seem to get under deployed to units. Same as in my game versus Sillyflower The problem of the Valentine is that it is the lighter of the medium tanks. 16 tons only. There is no reason in game to use it when you still have T-34. Gameplaywise, it would have been interesting to categorize it as light tanks or cavalry tanks instead of medium tank, to be used to fill all the light tank slots that are in dire need of equipment.

chaos45 -> RE: Clash of titans (11/19/2017 8:44:15 PM)
re-classifying it as a light tank might allow it to actually get used.

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 4:29:31 AM)
:( Now begins the "hold your buttchecks" tightly together to not get screwed phase for the Germans. Stef I do not envy you at all & wish you the best.

EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 12:47:25 PM)
Stef, I am wondering, what you aim for with your counterattacks against rifle corps is as loss ratios are 1:1 (beside the thrill of attacking)? Below is an example of such an attack: [image]https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/513742stel105baku.jpg[/image] Great fight and AAR!

chaos45 -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 4:55:40 PM)
He is buying time would be my guess. As he is trying to hold his currently well fortified lines as long as possible before the march to Berlin begins.

Stelteck -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 5:25:27 PM)
As a tribute to Stephane excellent AAR, some intel leaked from the soviet side at this date. [image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/11/20/485d8011e428f2ec9b55e42479167e88.jpg[/image] [image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/11/20/b08cd19ab7bb34fc479c2d0554cc9211.jpg[/image]

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 6:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stelteck As a tribute to Stephane excellent AAR, some intel leaked from the soviet side at this date. Ok you have all of these shiny new objects show us what you can do with them ;-P. ( P.S. all those Cav Corps require good Armor Leader now and not an Infantry leader, I'm sure you already know but for those that don't)

Stelteck -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 6:17:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain Ok you have all of these shiny new objects show us what you can do with them ;-P. ( P.S. all those Cav Corps require good Armor Leader now and not an Infantry leader, I'm sure you already know but for those that don't) In fact, i'am not s�re as they are still described as non motorized so i'am confused which value is the most important for them between mech and Inf. Did the leadership value applied squads per squads ? (With infantry squads using Inf and tanks using mech). Or there is a unique value for the entire division/corps ? If it is the later, then cavalry divisions are still non motorized and use Inf.

STEF78 -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 6:45:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain :( Now begins the "hold your buttchecks" tightly together to not get screwed phase for the Germans. Stef I do not envy you at all & wish you the best. Thanks In 1943, german army is still strong enough to counterattack efficiently but 1944 is hell, 1945 a nightmare

STEF78 -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 6:50:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist Stef, I am wondering, what you aim for with your counterattacks against rifle corps is as loss ratios are 1:1 (beside the thrill of attacking)? Below is an example of such an attack: as said Pelton, morale is king, so I need victories to keep my morale as high as possible It also has a negative psychological effect on soviet morale and it delays russian advance and above all it's fun to fight! quote: Great fight and AAR! thanks!

Twigster -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 6:57:30 PM)
quote: Great fight and AAR! Completely agree! I am enjoying both this and tyronec & Grognard1812's AAR immensely and learning from both.

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 7:42:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stelteck quote: ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain Ok you have all of these shiny new objects show us what you can do with them ;-P. ( P.S. all those Cav Corps require good Armor Leader now and not an Infantry leader, I'm sure you already know but for those that don't) In fact, i'am not s�re as they are still described as non motorized so i'am confused which value is the most important for them between mech and Inf. Did the leadership value applied squads per squads ? (With infantry squads using Inf and tanks using mech). Or there is a unique value for the entire division/corps ? If it is the later, then cavalry divisions are still non motorized and use Inf. Patch 1.08.07 is where the change happened. Here is a snippet from that patch; 11. For the purposes of leader rolls, Soviet cavalry units on or after 3/43 will be classified as motorized, together with armor, motorized, mechanized and SP gun units. This means they will fight better under leaders with high mech skill, rather than infantry skill, and is related to the introduction of 2/43 Cavalry Corps TOE, that is tank-heavy.

Stelteck -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 8:06:04 PM)
Thanks for the info. It is really a trap. [:D] We do not even have feedback if it is working as intended. Nevermind i'am better at building army than using them, my model is general George B. McClellan.

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 8:46:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stelteck my model is general George B. McClellan. OMG, lord help you then :-(. My family is from the town that George McClellan surrendered his command. Matter of fact my Great great great grandfather fought with Mosby in Northern Virginia but that is another story entirely. Good luck Modeling George McClellan ;-) [image]local://upfiles/53556/BD8799C92C52450A83A5F11647354D35.jpg[/image]

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 8:51:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain quote: ORIGINAL: Stelteck my model is general George B. McClellan. OMG, lord help you then :-(. My family is from the town that George McClellan surrendered his command. Matter of fact my Great great great grandfather fought with Mosby in Northern Virginia but that is another story entirely. Good luck Modeling George McClellan ;-) [image]local://upfiles/53556/BD8799C92C52450A83A5F11647354D35.jpg[/image] If I remember correctly my Civil War history, I believe Robert E Lee said McClellan was the only commander that he was afraid of. So maybe not so bad being McClellan....

Crackaces -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 9:04:41 PM)
quote: If I remember correctly my Civil War history, I believe Robert E Lee said McClellan was the only commander that he was afraid of. So maybe not so bad being McClellan.... If I remember my civil war history .. he got finally spanked by US Grant in a war of attrition ... the kind of war the rest of the Northern Generals could not or would not engage Relating to this game .. when you have a material and manpower edge you simply reduce the denominator at the same or better ratios .. eventually things will go your way 75/50 = 1.5 -> (20K loss each) 55/30 = 1.83333.... (20K loss each) 35/10 3.5 [8D]

Stelteck -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 9:36:56 PM)
You know you are a great general when even when you are fired you still got a monument to celebrate the event [:D]

STEF78 -> June 1943 (11/20/2017 9:49:45 PM)
Turn 106, 24th june 1943 We are some turns ahead of the AAR and I have a strong headache: "should I stay or should I go?....". I won't sent the turn back tonight. I will sleep, think about it and reply tomorrow... But back to june, more and more areas are concerned with russian attacks. Once I cut a head of the hydra, 2 more appear! Near Sochi, we are able to hold this week. But it won't last. [img]https://i.imgur.com/Usur8Kv.jpg[/img] North of Baku, heavy resistance and counterattack [img]https://i.imgur.com/aDRARjp.jpg[/img] Some russian pressure west of lake Elton [img]https://i.imgur.com/8yaCYRC.jpg[/img] With clear weather Stelteck is able to rotate enough units to get 3 major assaults on the same unit. It's too much! Of course we immediatly counterattack! [img]https://i.imgur.com/obIzKu4.jpg[/img]

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Clash of titans (11/20/2017 9:51:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crackaces quote: If I remember correctly my Civil War history, I believe Robert E Lee said McClellan was the only commander that he was afraid of. So maybe not so bad being McClellan.... If I remember my civil war history .. he got finally spanked by US Grant in a war of attrition ... the kind of war the rest of the Northern Generals could not or would not engage Relating to this game .. when you have a material and manpower edge you simply reduce the denominator at the same or better ratios .. eventually things will go your way 75/50 = 1.5 -> (20K loss each) 55/30 = 1.83333.... (20K loss each) 35/10 3.5 [8D] The two ways to defeat a foe is to attack their �means� (i.e. resources) or their �will� to fight (i.e. morale). The North won the "means" war and the South lost the "will" side of the equation.

STEF78 -> June 1943 (11/20/2017 9:56:48 PM)
South of Tambov, a single inf divs suffers 4 majors attacks! Even reserve activation isn't enough. russian AFV are burning like paper but is it simply useful? [img]https://i.imgur.com/QcS7s7y.jpg[/img] Fierce battles also around Moscow. The problem is that I cannot be sttrong everywhere and I will loose some very strong units during the next weeks, including LAH en july... headache, headache... [img]https://i.imgur.com/elZAjQ6.jpg[/img]

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