RE: July 1942 (Full Version)

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Stelteck -> RE: July 1942 (8/12/2017 10:41:17 AM)

I hates mountain divisions so much [:@]
Even mine. I'am not even sūre to understand how they are working for supply purpose. Looks like magic to me.

Time for a little funny pictures :

These are my best fighter squadrons :

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Steph/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202017-07-23%2014.44.00.jpg[/image]

And my best tactical bombers, which is very funny :

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Steph/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202017-07-23%2014.43.28.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: July 1942 (8/12/2017 10:03:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

I hates mountain divisions so much [:@]
Even mine. I'am not even sūre to understand how they are working for supply purpose. Looks like magic to me.

Time for a little funny pictures :

These are my best fighter squadrons :



And my best tactical bombers, which is very funny :





I love mountain divisions :) Soviets can field half an Army of these Elite little F'rs :) I combine them all together into one army starting turn 10+ along with some other high Exp/Morale units the soviets have. They have a nice little punch :) When the mountain units hit guard status it makes my pee pee hard.

Your fighters experience on turn 58+ is just slightly better than my fighters experience on Turn 8 :( What happened? I know a lot of Soviet players don't like loosing Airframes but I don't mind. I don't worry until I don't have any airframes left in the pool as reserves. What matters to me is getting "experience" first then "Morale" which usually is a by product of the experience getting. I will gladly lose 1,000 airframes in a turn to increase Experience and Morale. I will fly any type of airframe for a fighter too since I-16 & I-153 can still shoot down planes ;)



[image]local://upfiles/53556/99F444C1294348278C7EE13F4D9CA8B8.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: July 1942 (8/12/2017 11:22:10 PM)

My mountain divisions LOVE the Carpathian Mountains.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: July 1942 (8/12/2017 11:55:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

My mountain divisions LOVE the Carpathian Mountains.


That is where they need to be, but I reassign mine to the open plains to kill Germans instead of banging mountain goats ;-}



Dinglir -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 5:30:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I will gladly lose 1,000 airframes in a turn to increase Experience and Morale.


In game terms, there is nothing that will let an Air Group gain more experience than losing half it's manpower turn after turn after turn...




STEF78 -> July 1942 (8/13/2017 6:34:29 AM)

Just in comparison, best axis air units at the same time. Less units, less planes, higher morale; higher experience except for some tactical bombers which are suffering heavy losses

Fighters

[img]https://i.imgur.com/CWZXsJ6.jpg[/img]

Fighters Bombers

[img]https://i.imgur.com/WQB7eAU.jpg[/img]

Tactical Bombers

[img]https://i.imgur.com/QZBOaGE.jpg[/img]



Dinglir -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 7:32:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
Just in comparison, best axis air units at the same time.


The problem, I think, is not the Axis experience and Morale. I assume HardLucks screenie above is from the game he and I are playing (if not, the situation in that game will be very similar). In that game I have several Air Groups with both Morale and Experience at 99 (I wonder if it is capped or if it is just the report not showing higher numbers???).

The problem is that sooner or later, HardLuck is going to swap his Air Groups from flying obsolete fighters to flying good fighters. When that happens, he will change his airforce from being inferior to being very good overnight.

In theory, if an Air Group has an experience and morale of 80 and then looses half its aircraft, it should have replacements at low experience (say 20) and National Morale (say 40). That would average out to a new experience level of 50 and a Morale level of 60. It certainly seems the drop is very much less than that.

I also believe that losing aircraft should have a negative impact on the Morale level of the Air Group. Historically, by beginning of August 1941, the Soviet airforce was a complete shambles. I remember reading a biography of a Luftwaffe fighter pilot who claimed, that when they came across Soviet SB-2 bombers, the crew often bailed out of their functioning aircraft immidiately upon sighting the German fighters. They simply knew they would be shot down anyway. In game terms, that does not sound like an Air group with high morale.

Instead, HardLuck has played his airforce very well and made it into a solid base for creating a very strong airforce come winter. Obviously, HardLuck might just be that much better at the airwar than me. However, I prefer to think that the air system favors the Soviets, if you are content to micromanage your airforce (that is also the experience I had when I was playing the Soviets against Pelton and Hermann).

My advice to Stelteck would be this: Look at you reserve pools of fighters. If you have a lot of obsolete fighters, outfit some low experience/low morale Air Groups with them and start flying aggressively (but don't be stupid about it). You'll loose A LOT of fighters, but you will also be building experience for when you wish to change the aircraft back into good fighters.




Stelteck -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 12:37:41 PM)

You may have a point and i probably have a big progress margin in the management of the air force.

The fact is i'am quite lazy and care a lot about time efficiency, that means if i can increase the strengh of my army by 5% while increasing my turn lenght of 50%, i will probably not do it.
I also try to minimize precious AP and ressources spent in the air force, and for example mostly use automatic upgrade/swap of planes models.

I mostly send planes when i want to fight a ground battle and do not seek air fight for the sake of air fighting.

I was not aware that getting your air force being slaughtered in the air actually was a good thing for experience building [:D] (I was expecting the reserve from common sense, but ok). I may try to be more aggressive. [8|]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 1:07:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

You may have a point and i probably have a big progress margin in the management of the air force.

The fact is i'am quite lazy and care a lot about time efficiency, that means if i can increase the strengh of my army by 5% while increasing my turn lenght of 50%, i will probably not do it.
I also try to minimize precious AP and ressources spent in the air force, and for example mostly use automatic upgrade/swap of planes models.

I mostly send planes when i want to fight a ground battle and do not seek air fight for the sake of air fighting.

I was not aware that getting your air force being slaughtered in the air actually was a good thing for experience building [:D] (I was expecting the reserve from common sense, but ok). I may try to be more aggressive. [8|]



Your airforce is going to get slaughtered anyway, so why not build experience and morale. The Soviets have a TON of airframes in the pool so I will gladly sacrifice 100 of the "I" series planes to shoot down a few Germans(not to mention fatiguing the Germans in the process). The way to Berlin lies with the Airforce in my honest opinion. The longer the Germans control the skies the harder it is for the Soviets. As such starting on turn 8 of my game I build fighters every turn, 6-7 and 1-2 Tac for a total of 8 air units a turn until I have all the fronts with 6 airbases of fighters & 4 bomber bases (will take some time but that has been my plan in my games). The fronts that are getting attacked by PZ's (or I want to hold something) I put a total of 20 airbases (12 fighters & 8 bombers bases) in front of them. Having air support makes a huge difference in the ground war. Not to mention Soviet tac bombers do a ton of damage and what better way to cause casualties. (P.S. Notice how many trucks I have in the picture I posted ;-} )



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 1:17:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

You may have a point and i probably have a big progress margin in the management of the air force.

The fact is i'am quite lazy and care a lot about time efficiency, that means if i can increase the strengh of my army by 5% while increasing my turn lenght of 50%, i will probably not do it.
I also try to minimize precious AP and ressources spent in the air force, and for example mostly use automatic upgrade/swap of planes models.

I mostly send planes when i want to fight a ground battle and do not seek air fight for the sake of air fighting.

I was not aware that getting your air force being slaughtered in the air actually was a good thing for experience building [:D] (I was expecting the reserve from common sense, but ok). I may try to be more aggressive. [8|]



Your airforce is going to get slaughtered anyway, so why not build experience and morale. The Soviets have a TON of airframes in the pool so I will gladly sacrifice 100 of the "I" series planes to shoot down a few Germans(not to mention fatiguing the Germans in the process). The way to Berlin lies with the Airforce in my honest opinion. The longer the Germans control the skies the harder it is for the Soviets. As such starting on turn 8 of my game I build fighters every turn, 6-7 and 1-2 Tac for a total of 8 air units a turn until I have all the fronts with 6 airbases of fighters & 4 bomber bases (will take some time but that has been my plan in my games). The fronts that are getting attacked by PZ's (or I want to hold something) I put a total of 20 airbases (12 fighters & 8 bombers bases) in front of them. Having air support makes a huge difference in the ground war. Not to mention Soviet tac bombers do a ton of damage and what better way to cause casualties. (P.S. Notice how many trucks I have in the picture I posted ;-} )



I'm not saying this is the best way nor the most efficient. It has just been my way in my games. I have to micromanage the Airforce but it does pay off in the end.



Telemecus -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 1:42:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
I was not aware that getting your air force being slaughtered in the air actually was a good thing for experience building [:D]


Could be a kind of evolutionary selection process - the less experienced get killed off leaving a highly experienced remainder? [&:][;)][:D]



Dinglir -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 3:40:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
(P.S. Notice how many trucks I have in the picture I posted ;-} )


Where do you see this on that report screen?



Telemecus -> RE: July 1942 (8/13/2017 3:45:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
(P.S. Notice how many trucks I have in the picture I posted ;-} )


Where do you see this on that report screen?


I think in HardLuckYetAgain's screenshot it can be seen in the main/map screen (which is in the background) in the usual top place in the top right corner, so may have just been referring to that rather than it being visible in the commander's report?



STEF78 -> july 1942 (8/13/2017 9:18:18 PM)

Turn 59, 30th july 1942

I keep the pressure on the Stalingrad salliant

[img]https://i.imgur.com/XZizZ16.jpg[/img]

and definitively (till... 1943?1944?) cut the rail between Baku and Astrakhan

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Ir7sOY7.jpg[/img]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: july 1942 (8/13/2017 10:10:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Turn 59, 30th july 1942

I keep the pressure on the Stalingrad salliant



and definitively (till... 1943?1944?) cut the rail between Baku and Astrakhan





The rail network on this part of the map is really "sparse" ;-) Not only the line between those two locations but the rail lines that feed Stalingrad ;-)



BrianG -> supply line (8/14/2017 12:00:31 PM)

The gutsy move would be hold the mountain passes, hold the Baku passage, send armored army to Krasnodar area and attack through Rumanians and Italians and cut supply line for Germans in Baku area.

Just don't do it the way I did it against Silly.



sillyflower -> RE: supply line (8/14/2017 12:58:51 PM)

The Brian move might work. I had a lot more strength down there in our game, and much shorter supply lines on those turns that you did not get in the way. Stef's rail head now is where I think mine was by the end of March.

Stef does, however, have the advantage over me of all those jaeger divs now acting as mtn units which leaves the southern rail line a lot more vulnerable to interdiction. On balance, I reckon that the gutsy move would now be suicidal as it's hard to see a decisive armour/cav force cutting off G supplies before they lost their own.



Stelteck -> RE: supply line (8/16/2017 6:49:54 AM)

The game is on pause for holiday, in the middle of a titanic struggle in the caucasus, stalingrad and the Volga.

The game will resume in the beginning of september. I can't wait [;)]



STEF78 -> August 1942 (9/1/2017 12:35:21 PM)

Turn 60, 6th august 1942

Back to duty!

We are now entering the second part of 1942's summer campaign. Stelteck has traded some ground against time and as usual, most of the operations are occuring South (and far South!) of Tula.

In the center, Stelteck is very strong around Saratov and on the eastern bank of the Volga, and as there is no VP's for Saratov I decide to go first for Stalingrad. I reduce the bulge around this city, cut the rail South and try to cut the rail north, while crossing the Volga.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VgdmS88.jpg[/img]


In the South I'm facing a complicated siuation. I was over confident with my ability to supply my spearheads via air and now all my Pzd east of Grozny have run out of fuel...
Stelteck still strongly holds Crimea, I wery weak in western Caucasus and not sure to be able to cut the Baku-Batumi rail line. it's sure that such a frontline would be a disaster for german army in 1943

[img]https://i.imgur.com/vZTIzMd.jpg[/img]



chaos45 -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 3:54:52 AM)

I could be rusty, but looking at that map you have no chain of HQs to your spearhead in the south thus why your supply sucks.

Basically your Army group headquarters should be on the rail head of close to it, then your the army HQ midway between the Army group and the corp HQs.....as each part of the command chain can move supplies to the next...least thats how I thought it works. So by having all your HQs forward you have none close enough to draw supply from the rail head and move supplies to the forward HQs.




charlie0311 -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 5:22:04 AM)

Hi Stef,

Try for two Pz groups, 2 or three xxx's each. Do a two turn of full to very high mps hqbu. For one of the Pz groups, then follow this with the second Pz group, also with two turn hqbu.

Can't do much of anything with the air supply anymore.

A game of musical chairs as the Pz groups rotate up and back. Up to carry the offensive forward, then back to fuel up via hqbu routine.

Hint: getting two turns of high mps is not really clear at all. Must be the reason there are so few "good" axis players. But what do I know??? Giggle, giggle, blush, blush. Toke, toke...



STEF78 -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 11:20:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

I could be rusty, but looking at that map you have no chain of HQs to your spearhead in the south thus why your supply sucks.

Basically your Army group headquarters should be on the rail head of close to it, then your the army HQ midway between the Army group and the corp HQs.....as each part of the command chain can move supplies to the next...least thats how I thought it works. So by having all your HQs forward you have none close enough to draw supply from the rail head and move supplies to the forward HQs.



I'm not sure that my main problem comes from HQ chaining. My army Group is in Rostov, my armies just ahead of the railhead.

I did a mistake with my air transport units. Half of them remained in the Moscow area [:(] and as the others were intensively used, they are now 80% depleted. I will be able to add 120 JU52 next turn to airbases in the South.



STEF78 -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 11:22:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Hi Stef,

Try for two Pz groups, 2 or three xxx's each. Do a two turn of full to very high mps hqbu. For one of the Pz groups, then follow this with the second Pz group, also with two turn hqbu.

Can't do much of anything with the air supply anymore.

A game of musical chairs as the Pz groups rotate up and back. Up to carry the offensive forward, then back to fuel up via hqbu routine.

Hint: getting two turns of high mps is not really clear at all. Must be the reason there are so few "good" axis players. But what do I know??? Giggle, giggle, blush, blush. Toke, toke...

I'm too far from railhead to use HQBU right now and as I'm not very rich in trucks, I will use it cautiously...



charlie0311 -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 1:31:46 PM)

Sheesh, you got plenty of trucks, hqbu is a truck killer, another wite myth.

Air supply won't cut it, go ahead anyway.

HQ chain is for COMMAND purposes, supply is to first hq then to supply source, usually the nearest railhead.

Besides the gd rifle xxx will stop you in any case, then the gd cav xxx will counter attack, boo-hoo, boo-hoo, all the way back to Berlin. Psst, don't tell Stelleck, he likes to figure things out by getting his ass-kicked.

Fun to be a forum idiot.. hehe, forgot to "toke" again, sheesh yourself, charlie - doggie.



Dinglir -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 4:24:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Sheesh, you got plenty of trucks, hqbu is a truck killer, another wite myth.

Air supply won't cut it, go ahead anyway.

HQ chain is for COMMAND purposes, supply is to first hq then to supply source, usually the nearest railhead.

Besides the gd rifle xxx will stop you in any case, then the gd cav xxx will counter attack, boo-hoo, boo-hoo, all the way back to Berlin. Psst, don't tell Stelleck, he likes to figure things out by getting his ass-kicked.

Fun to be a forum idiot.. hehe, forgot to "toke" again, sheesh yourself, charlie - doggie.


I remember when we talked about playing a game, and we decided against it. One of the main reasons was that you felt I was being far to disrespectful.



Stelteck -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 5:18:56 PM)

Yes the game restarted !!!

Soon exciting news about the battle of the caucasus and Stalingrad, epic fight around the volga and the first tiger kill, turn 66.
(Heavy panzer bataillon have CV=4. Wow !!!).

Will i be able to fulfill my pledge not to built any rifle corps in 1942 ?

Do not miss the next episodes of this AAR !!



charlie0311 -> RE: August 1942 (9/2/2017 6:22:10 PM)

@Dinglir, give it a rest, hope this the last and only public response. gag, barf, oops, excuse me.



STEF78 -> August 1942 (9/3/2017 12:42:43 PM)

Turn 61, 13th august 1942

High tide is close now. I won't be able to achieve a decisive victory and I have still 8 weeks before mud. Then we will enter the "neutral war zone" where both armies are of equivalent strength. So it's time to prepare for the second part of the war.

I will begin to think about buffer, good defensive zones but at the moment, best defence is offensive!

Center

Stelteck counterattacks to prevent any access to the eastern bank of the Volga. Another counterattack happened from the north. I'm still stronger than the russian army but it can bite now.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/KhWfLS3.jpg[/img]

3 actions:
- crushing the northern russian counterattack. A tank corps is isolated.
- insisting to cross the Volga South of Saratov
- crossing the Volga South of Stalingrad to surround the city. The northern pincer failed.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/X7mU40l.jpg[/img]

Caucasus

Mountains units do their best to cut the rail but as they advance far through Caucasus mountains, supply becomes critical. If Stelteck is able to gather enough units, I won't be able to cut the rail.

It means that I will have to clean western Caucasus and Crimea by direct assault.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/NeWPpAL.jpg[/img]



Telemecus -> RE: August 1942 (9/3/2017 1:34:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
Soon ... the first tiger kill, turn 66.
(Heavy panzer bataillon have CV=4. Wow !!!).


Looks something like this?

[image]http://i.imgur.com/0L5rZX7.jpg[/image]



Stelteck -> RE: August 1942 (9/3/2017 3:10:39 PM)

More this model is present in the german army. Listen to the powerfull roar of its engine !!

[image]https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1f/03/65/1f0365860223196df7dc38430590aaf8.jpg[/image]




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