RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (Full Version)

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HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 3:32:09 AM)

Turn 6 ending remarks

I took some chances here in the center since the center seems to be stacked with excellent leaders. I have seen Zhukov, Kuznetsov, Eremenko, and Tolubukin just to name a few. Not to mention the unit strengths are off the charts for some of the frontal infantry so that right there tells me they are well led. But I now threaten Kaluga and Tula within easy striking distance. At Bryansk I took a chance to bite off the tail end of the proverbial Soviet snake. I just hope the snake doesn't turn around and bite my azz.

At Leningrad the beginning of the end is at hand and the next few turns will be getting into position then the death strike. I don't foresee this taking very long at all with ample time for other sectors.

I'm across the Dnieper in 3 places now and will show the overall picture of all fronts in a few turns of what I did. The rail line for the Crimea has been cut sealing the fate of another 2 Arms and 2 HI and I'm behind Z-town in force (with all industry still in place) and now pose a threat to Stalino tri-town.


PS. Someone please fix the JU-52's. They are next to worthless in current state & glad I learned to play without them long ago.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 4:09:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I just realized why you chose your avatar. You like to play with your food before you eat it :)



What do you think about the Prison camps? Think I'm playing with them too? ;-P



timmyab -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 9:20:52 AM)

I think all's fair in love and war :)

Thanks for the education re retreat priorities. I hadn't realised that rail is the first priority. This takes some of the guess work out of planning a defense.

I have often thought it would be nice if you could specify where individual units will retreat, maybe subject to a leader rating check.



AFV -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 10:36:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 6 ending remarks

I took some chances here in the center since the center seems to be stacked with excellent leaders. I have seen Zhukov, Kuznetsov, Eremenko, and Tolubukin just to name a few. Not to mention the unit strengths are off the charts for some of the frontal infantry so that right there tells me they are well led. But I now threaten Kaluga and Tula within easy striking distance. At Bryansk I took a chance to bite off the tail end of the proverbial Soviet snake. I just hope the snake doesn't turn around and bite my azz.

At Leningrad the beginning of the end is at hand and the next few turns will be getting into position then the death strike. I don't foresee this taking very long at all with ample time for other sectors.

I'm across the Dnieper in 3 places now and will show the overall picture of all fronts in a few turns of what I did. The rail line for the Crimea has been cut sealing the fate of another 2 Arms and 2 HI and I'm behind Z-town in force (with all industry still in place) and now pose a threat to Stalino tri-town.


PS. Someone please fix the JU-52's. They are next to worthless in current state & glad I learned to play without them long ago.




What is wrong with the JU-52s?



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 1:44:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I think all's fair in love and war :)

Thanks for the education re retreat priorities. I hadn't realised that rail is the first priority. This takes some of the guess work out of planning a defense.

I have often thought it would be nice if you could specify where individual units will retreat, maybe subject to a leader rating check.


So you are looking for the detailed view of the two thrusts I made on Leningrad & Bryansk?



smokindave34 -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 1:49:12 PM)

Your panzers are at Bryansk at turn 6 - did you do HQBU's with the units in AGC?

M60 is in trouble. Not only are you pushing very deep early in the game you've pocketed a lot of units and he gets very few reinforcements for the next few turns. Not sure if he'll be able to hold on.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 2:31:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Your panzers are at Bryansk at turn 6 - did you do HQBU's with the units in AGC?

M60 is in trouble. Not only are you pushing very deep early in the game you've pocketed a lot of units and he gets very few reinforcements for the next few turns. Not sure if he'll be able to hold on.


I have done a total of (2) HQ BU's up to turn 5. (1) in the North and (1) in the Center.

I have said many times that the Soviets have a serious lack of units early game and until the re-borns show up along with turn 10+ reinforcements the Germans need to take advantage of the "GOLDEN Turns" turns 6-10. Onboard prisons will be held open for a bit even though it will tie up some of my units. But by doing so the re-borns of these prisoners will be delayed to at least the mud turns since the reborn is a variable of ~6-15 turns that I have noticed playing the Soviets(Cav re-born is much shorter, like 3-5 turns)

I'm sure M60 will do just fine. Bringing down the Soviet bear has to be brought down by a thousand cuts and I will more than likely mess up soon enough. Not to mention M60 is a very good player.



Dinglir -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 3:12:51 PM)

I really love the detailed reports you do on the preparations. I am sure this will help a lot of players improve their game. I have certainly picked up a thing or two.

Keep it up.



Telemecus -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/24/2018 4:14:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV
What is wrong with the JU-52s?


Damage/reserve too easily in great numbers from even one mission - and do not repair on an airbase (except for some limited circumstances) - not WAD.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 1:43:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

I really love the detailed reports you do on the preparations. I am sure this will help a lot of players improve their game. I have certainly picked up a thing or two.

Keep it up.



Recon and planning is so important for the Germans I can't stress this enough. 90% preparation and 10% execution.

I will do the two detailed attacks on Leningrad & Bryansk real quick tonight on my step by steps so people can see the moves. But I don't know if I can continue through the whole campaign because it does get pretty tedious.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 2:20:02 AM)

Turn 6 detailed run through of the Bryansk attack.

I will run through the attack sequence of how I look at things. I hope this helps some people out in their games & if you have any questions please ask or point out where I have gotten something wrong. By all means, I'm no expert but I always strive to do the best I can. Please comment your thoughts. Thank you.

Please note that setting up a defense is an artform too. I know when I was playing the Soviets I was my own worst enemy. Why? Because I was setting up a defense on how I do my offense and was defending against "me". I just haven't seen many people do what I do on my attacks. Hopefully, I can get people to look at the opening turns for Germany in a different way now. I can show you how I would have set up a defense to protect against this sort of attack too. Although people would probably laugh at the defense I would set up. But really is a simple defense to combat this when you think about it long enough. But maybe I should keep that secret to myself ;-P

Here is what I want to accomplish on the Bryansk attack to set the scenario up again.

Orange = Combat Units
Yellow = HQ's and normally the end of the combat line, not always
White = empty hexes and this tells us a great deal.
Blue lines with arrows = retreat path envisioned for those units
Black lines = The Bryansk Highway

[image]local://upfiles/53556/21135DBCE7F04B9996AC6504BD263D3F.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 2:24:44 AM)

Turn 6 Bryansk attack

Step 1

Bring the SS unit down to attack the Soviet in the Woods. The attack will force the Soviet to retreat to the rail line SE almost "all" the time. After the attack move one hex NE and attack the next unit

[image]local://upfiles/53556/E51DCAC3095F4937B9BA3F3ED4E84B28.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 2:31:14 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk walkthrough.

Step 2

The 2nd attack succeeds on the 2nd unit marked #2 in the snapshot. The reason this unit retreated to the hex NE is because #1 was next to the SS and was not a retreat priority hex. The two hexes marked #3 were not retreat priorities because the hex circled in red with white background with a black X turned friendly with a ZOC. Therefore the units #1 retreat priority was NE only. So the first path was open without having to commit the extra Moto unit or Armor unit to open this path up. Therefore they will be used to further encircle the two Soviet divisions to the South. At all times I always try and move units the farthest from the front first to open things up. This way I benefit the most with the extra MPs if that makes sense, rear to front movement.

The added benefit is that I have 4 MP's left to break into regiments and limit Soviet MP's. I always try to have MP's left over if possible and this one worked out just fine :)

[image]local://upfiles/53556/455EF6EB4B77494284C99C0B570A9DAF.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 2:41:13 AM)

The attack on Bryansk walkthrough

Step 3

I bring up an Armor Division and a Moto Division. I only attack with the Armor division to force this Soviet division NE. The unit will retreat to the rail hex pretty much all the time.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/AFDF9EDBD7DF45E693C30A4C3E797FDC.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 2:44:15 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 4

I now move the Moto Division one hex east to force the next 3=6 division to retreat to the SE. I don't want the division to retreat to the clear terrain directly east.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/693FCD55A10343CB804CD20A6FA9E616.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 2:51:40 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 5

I now attack with the armor division SE the Soviet 3=6 division to force the division to the woods hex SE. Once that is finished I then move the Armor division into the same hex as the German Moto division for my next attack. (please note before all these attacks I make sure my HQ's are all in range all down the line. Also if I have certain odds I will break the Division down into regiments not to route the unit(not the case here but just saying). I also will move the HQ out of range in certain circumstances to NOT get leadership bonuses based on what I see. Yes, you read that correctly. I move the HQ out of range of the unit. Not all the time do you want to get max benefit from leadership roles. I'm sure a lot of you are shaking your head but just think about different situation where you don't want specific things to happen and get back to me on it ;-) )

[image]local://upfiles/53556/C009C7978A334F5DB166502E1E90932E.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 2:58:57 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 6

I now attack the 11=9 Soviet stack and I'm 100% sure the unit will retreat down the rail line. My ultimate destination for them is the hex I numbered #1. There is only one unit in the #1 hex and two more units would be so nice and comfy there ;-). Knowing this unit will follow the rail lines on its retreat 100% makes my life easy :)

[image]local://upfiles/53556/1ACA3AFD17AB46D4A09BC3193D466CA0.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:04:46 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 7

As expected 100% the two units retreated down the rail line. I now bring up a fresh armor division to finish the herding of these two units to the desired hex.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/D2D75709838C4CD5A379D6ABC3E61EA9.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:08:38 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 8

Fresh German Armor brought up to carry on the attack of the Soviet 8=5 two division stack. 100% will follow the rail to the SE on the retreat to my corral point in the making.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/7DACC35AA6AC4D11BBE468D16D66D753.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:17:13 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 9

No surprises at all and the sheep were herded to the hex desired in the #1 spot. Next will attack the next unit to the east forcing it to the SE. Please take note of the circle with #2 in it. These are some well-led units and high experience/morale units.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/00CA155B6F2C4C5FA40C8B7C5FFE2AF9.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:24:21 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 10

No surprises at all yet again. The sheep have begun there journey and hope to get them below (SE) of the last herded hex # 2 on the snap shot. So far so good. But I am concerned since Armor units are brittle and like to route 70% of the time so trying to get the inf div & the armor division is going to be painful to retreat across when the time comes. Please see forward for more details when I get to that point.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/7A3168E6FAC042499ACD2BD79959769D.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:32:19 AM)

Turn 6

the attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 11

I bring up a fresh Moto Unit. SS MOTO UNIT! I love these guys. The unit will retreat to the SE. Why? Because the forest with rail is going further away, in MP's, to a supply source and will retreat to a clear rail hex this time. At least that is what I believe to be the case and know the unit will retreat to the SE.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/F9B32C11FF0A485591EDA87F53CB161C.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:37:36 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 12

The Sov Div retreated SE as expected. I will now move SE with the SS Division and displace 2 HQ's and attack the Rif Division and tank Division. They will retreat to either east or SE. I just hope the Tank division doesn't route and hope it is a strong one.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/E2F9772F442E4B849F21B55CC60C4292.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:46:31 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 13

The Soviet division split retreated, which is normal, and now the middle section looks open. The SS division has 6 MP's left over and will stop here to break down into regiments to restrict Soviet Movement. I will now bring up another division and walk it one hex at a time to make 100% sure the two 0?0 units in front of me are HQ's. I know for sure one of them are and i'm 99.9% sure the other one is too since that is how they show up after recon.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/87E5C32626EF4F12BE0004A8FA9F929B.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:53:58 AM)

Turn 6

Tha attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 14

Bring in a fresh Moto unit and walk it forward. I displace two HQ and I now head to the AT brigade to the North displacing the HQ again.. The AT brigade will retreat 100% to the NE along the rail.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/46C81F3CBE414ECA9052E4A6855A302D.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 3:57:45 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 15

Nothing unusual and the AT brigade retreated as expected. I now will bring up the 1st Guderian Armor Division to try and move the Rifle Division & tank division across the river.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/70AD21C76BFC4691AAB1383D7995A5BA.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 4:05:20 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 16

I bring up an armor division to attack the 11=14. These two units will retreat to the SW but the armor is brittle and could route. I know this hex took a few attacks and I don't remember now if I broke the armor division down into regiments and attack individually to wear them down a little bit. But I know this was a tough hex and I did have another armor unit if needed to come around the backside to help attack if necessary.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/285015DF8ADD4093922CD4705D3F955B.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 4:18:53 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 17

The attacked worked after a few attacks and both retreated to the Corral :). Now it is just movement to finish the encirclement and now I know I have an extra Tank Division and an extra Moto division to try and encircle the two Soviet Rifle divisions at the bottom since I didn't need them for back up up here if I had too many failed attacks.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/75A5D007744D434497319122EDC5EEA0.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 4:25:10 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 18

Bring in the rest of the units, but not everything, to start sealing off the 3 pockets.

***** Please note that I know that the hex NE of Bryansk is 3 HQ units. 1 that started there and 2 that were displaced to there. So with a 90+ exp Moto regiment I need 8 mp's to get to that hex.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/24C94D947BCA497293B17D960C748EBA.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) (2/25/2018 4:34:01 AM)

Turn 6

The attack on Bryansk Walkthrough

Step 19

The final position of the encirclement. Any comments would be greatly appreciated & again I'm no expert and hope I shed some light on how I look at things. Please ask any questions or comments. Or just tell me I'm an idiot and I'm doing it wrong. Either way, both are appreciated.

I can do the Leningrad one if you like but that was an easier scenario IMO.

Thank you for reading and hope I have helped in some way for others that are trying their hand in the game. I have helped many one-on-one and more than happy to assist in what little knowledge I have if you have questions. I answer all emails and PM's.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/40E358D06CBB48F2A2512877217E358E.jpg[/image]



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