RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J)

RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (Full Version)

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Bif1961 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/10/2017 1:54:56 AM)
I tried to ambush the mini-KB 2 US carriers 180 ac against 3 CVL mini-KB with 108 AC. The night before the morning ambush one of my US carriers got torpedoed by a sub and couldn't launch so it was 3 CVLs against 1 US carrier and I lost both US carriers for light damaged to 1 CVL.

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/10/2017 2:04:35 AM)
And planes they don't have, honestly. The pools are bottom-of-the-barrel small.

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/11/2017 2:50:42 AM)
quote: I tried to ambush the mini-KB 2 US carriers 180 ac against 3 CVL mini-KB with 108 AC. What was the game date? Remember the US CV's do not get their full complement of fighters for several months. (Conversion to F4F-4 with folding wings.)

Bif1961 -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/12/2017 1:54:36 AM)
Added addition Marine fighter squadrons to bring the numbers up. It was early Jan 42.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/13/2017 10:16:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing I can't say I didn't expect this to happen. I was getting flashbacks to an AAR a few years back where a IJN player lost the KB in the Eastern DEI to a gaggle of Allied SCTF's in late '42. The DEI is a carriers graveyard simply because there's so little searoom - disaster is then just a few reactions and an engagement or two away from disaster. While it's easy to say with hindsight, you were simply fighting too far forward. As tempting a target as the oil would have been, a more measured approach would have cost you less. Keeping the carriers unseen behind Java, then following it up with a combined carrier and LBA strike when Lowpe's attention was elsewhere would have probably allowed you to get clean away. The question I must ask is why did it need to be the DEI? I know you've read my AAR - Loka's '42 carrier raid on Hokkaido should be mandatory for the Allies if the KB is deployed in the DEI. You've obviously not read the rest of the AAR. Just work out it out, maybe. Where is the KB for a week? Where are the Allied CVs? Where is the fuel to make it to the HI and back? The DEI has support, is far from where the KB was, and proved to be the right place to do this. I just didn't take care of business.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/13/2017 10:22:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Macclan5 Despite the the losses and any admonishment (self or otherwise).. I am very impressed with the deployment of scare assets (USCVs in the early part of the war). It was very informative and interesting to me. Admittedly I am a rookie but still... Oil may not be the "strategic trade off" you envisioned in 1941; however a number of IJN CA / CL / DD (even a BB Yasamiro with 2 torps) are downed or severely damaged requiring shipyard time as far as I can follow. These Naval assets cannot therefore be used in the aggressive expansion of the co-prosperity sphere as I recon it. Now your own losses in CA / CL / DD must be taken into account but with strong LBA and careful management you should be able to start deploying to strategic bases.... Reasons to be optimistic: Saratoga hunting unescorted xAks and DD in the North Pacific. Hornet and Wasp online soon. All with F4Fs and SBD3's - no more Buffalo's. All 3 can prowl Pearl / Tarawa / Canton / Palmyra supporting defense in depth and raiding the unwary IJN. CVE's start pouring in in 6 months that can lend a supporting hand in the Coral Sea for example.. or visa versa. The biggest hurting point is that the "good CVE's of the Sangamon class" do take a while to come online. Further some British CVs are online soon and if you feel you can wait to transit them to Balboa - they can replace Lex at least...or play a similar spoiling role off the coast in Burma.... Another reason to be optimistic is that the DEI is not done yet. there are a few more things left up our sleeve, and the position of most of the KB is known. That makes me happy, since Akagi just took one fish and there are 35-40 subs vectoring into position again now. Many of them Dutch. The mini-KB is being chased by a few more. I'll risk more CVs if I have a shot at his, but not without a good reason. I might have a reason very soon. [:)]

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 7:55:12 AM)
Jan 4, 1942 GAME: This has been an incredibly fun game to this point. I've been really busy at work these last few days and haven't gotten a chance to tell more of the story, and Jeff had some stuff as well, so we've only exchanged one turn this week. It was odd to come back to a comment from mindmessing suggesting I'd stepped too far, that this was the wrong strategy, letting me know how I could have got "clean away" if I'd played this differently. I feel it's important to mention a few things I'd decided about playing the Allies. Before the game I'd made a decision to not go Sir Robin for a year and a half until I had overwhelming power. I think this is too easy for the Allies. Of course you can then move forward if you have all CVs intact and the firehose of new ships, planes and troops is set to full and getting stronger for the rest of the war. I'll play to win, but I have some experience of Japanese vulnerabilities, and I want to use that knowledge and understanding to hit where it hurts from day one. I didn't have a distinct plan ready, but did know I'd take advantage of what my opponent gave. Jeff stayed at PH for a week. I wanted to see what the USN CVs could do in that scenario. From Cent Pac to the DEI they were able to disrupt, change Japanese plans, and ultimately do some damage to some long term infrastructure. The goal was of course to get them out safely. The reason they've gotten into trouble is my fault tactically, not strategically. They were in the right place, on the most dangerous mission for this time period for the Japanese to face, but they simply couldn't do the job in the way it played out. I made two distinct errors, and I've paid the price. That's okay! It was worth for me to see that this is entirely workable and that even now, with Ryujo likely under and a lot of other damage to the Japanese assets and industry, there is a lot to look positively on from the Allied perspective. I'm not feeling positive, but objectively this was definitely worth a shot. I've learned a lot and it's certainly been fun to orchestrate and watch play out. I've lost CVs before, and it hurts. This hurts bad, but I'm going to keep going, just as the Allies did in 42 when they lost several CVs. DEI: The Jan 4 turn began with a lot of inconclusive small surface engagements, and then the Enterprise met the mini-KB in a bizarre and short lived interaction. No shots fired. After that the Myoko and Kitakami with a few DDs hit Enterprise with two more shots before she could escape a bit further. Her surface cover got tangled with Ise and Ashigara. Again, the DDs on both sides get the worst of it, but Ise also gets nailed by 12 x 500lb bombs from Enterprise Devastators. Hope some fires are going there. The USN cruisers can't keep up and enterprise is also slowed to 6 knots a phase. She'll aim to flank out near Miri with only her small contingent of Wildcats for cover and some DDs and Marblehead will trail to beat off surface ships if possible. There are some near Jolo that l seemed to go for an ACM I sent that way. Similarly on the 5th the Gertrude Kellogg and an AM will aim to get in the way as well, just now escaping full of fuel from Manila. While that is al going on cruisers around Singers will go for Palembang. I'll try for a big hit, and hopefully keep them from air strikes with LR CAP from Djambi, still in Dutch hands. If Palembang fields are shut, more oil can be hit. Oosthave and Praebemolith will also be targeted to limit future possibilities. Under the cover of all of that PoW is still chugging along and will reach Batavia, then try for a shot through the straits into the IO. Minelayers will hit the hex after it goes through to hopefully close the door to undesirable followers. SUBS: Seawolf nails Akagi near the Celebes with one fish!! Now the hunt is on. Hopefully this slows the KB and gets more subs in position and able to track them. [:)] CHINA: Troops hold in the Sian road block. Reinforcements on the way 7-8 turns out. I tried a big stack DA at Changsha, but only a 1:1 result. Close. I think the Chinese can only be offensive at 3:1 AV odds, and we have almost that here, but I'll now hold as a failed day 2 could be disaster. It was worth a shot but now it's back to the defensive. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 4, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Balikpapan at 65,99, Range 23,000 Yards Japanese Ships CVL Zuiho CVE Hosho CS Chiyoda DD Arashio DD Fuyo DD Yugao Allied Ships CV Enterprise, on fire CA New Orleans CL Marblehead DD Shaw DD Downes DD Cassin DD Reid DD John D. Ford Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 96% moonlight: 11,000 yards Range closes to 22,000 yards... Range increases to 23,000 yards... Both Task Forces evade combat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Donggala at 66,99, Range 11,000 Yards Japanese Ships CA Myoko, Shell hits 2 CL Kitakami DD Kisaragi, Shell hits 1 DD Nagatsuki DD Mochizuki DD Hatakaze, Shell hits 1 Allied Ships CV Enterprise, Shell hits 2, on fire CA New Orleans, Shell hits 1 CL Marblehead DD Shaw, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Downes, Shell hits 1 DD Cassin, Shell hits 1 DD Reid, Shell hits 1 DD John D. Ford, Shell hits 1 Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Bara at 74,106 Japanese Ships CV Akagi, Torpedo hits 1 [&o][&o] BB Kirishima BB Hiei CA Chikuma CL Abukuma DD Hamakaze DD Kasumi DD Arare DD Tanikaze Allied Ships SS Seawolf SS Seawolf launches 4 torpedoes at CV Akagi Seawolf diving deep .... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Donggala at 66,99, Range 24,000 Yards Japanese Ships BB Ise, Shell hits 4 CA Ashigara DD Oyashio, Shell hits 4, on fire DD Kuri, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Hishu, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage Allied Ships CA Portland, Shell hits 2 CA Chicago DD Case, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Porter, Shell hits 1 DD Worden, Shell hits 2, on fire DD MacDonough DD Dewey, Shell hits 1 DD Hull Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Balikpapan at 66,100, Range 22,000 Yards Japanese Ships BB Ise, Shell hits 12 CA Ashigara, Shell hits 2 Allied Ships CA Portland, Shell hits 5 CA Chicago, Shell hits 1 DD Porter, Shell hits 2, on fire DD Worden, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage DD MacDonough DD Dewey, Shell hits 1, on fire Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Amchitka Island at 158,52 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 10 minutes Allied aircraft PBY-5 Catalina x 3 No Allied losses Japanese Ships xAK Ikushima Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire Aircraft Attacking: 3 x PBY-5 Catalina bombing from 1000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Balikpapan , at 64,97 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 Ki-27b Nate x 5 Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 5 Allied aircraft Do-24K-1 x 4 B-17D Fortress x 4 B-17E Fortress x 16 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses Do-24K-1: 2 damaged B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged Japanese Ships BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 3 BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 1 Port hits 5 Aircraft Attacking: 5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 5000 feet * Port Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb 2 x Do-24K-1 bombing from 5000 feet Port Attack: 4 x 300 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 65,100 Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid spotted at 7 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 3 minutes Allied aircraft F4F-3A Wildcat x 3 TBD-1 Devastator x 13 Allied aircraft losses TBD-1 Devastator: 1 damaged Japanese Ships BB Ise, Bomb hits 12, on fire Aircraft Attacking: 13 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 64,100 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 7 minutes Allied aircraft SB2U-3 Vindicator x 13 Allied aircraft losses SB2U-3 Vindicator: 1 damaged Japanese Ships CA Takao, Bomb hits 3, on fire CA Atago, Bomb hits 1, on fire Aircraft Attacking: 2 x SB2U-3 Vindicator releasing from 4000' Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Donggala at 67,97 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 27 minutes Japanese aircraft G3M2 Nell x 9 Allied aircraft F4F-3A Wildcat x 5 Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged No Allied losses Allied Ships CV Enterprise Aircraft Attacking: 5 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 5000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Amchitka Island at 158,52 Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 9 minutes Allied aircraft PBY-5 Catalina x 3 No Allied losses Japanese Ships xAK Ikushima Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 3 x PBY-5 Catalina bombing from 1000 feet Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 87,41 (near Tsiaotso) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 28315 troops, 264 guns, 40 vehicles, Assault Value = 698 Defending force 22757 troops, 190 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 542 Japanese adjusted assault: 424 Allied adjusted defense: 712 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), experience(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 1118 casualties reported Squads: 10 destroyed, 98 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled Engineers: 2 destroyed, 6 disabled Allied ground losses: 634 casualties reported Squads: 8 destroyed, 57 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Guns lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled) Assaulting units: 37th Division 41st Division 4th Ind.Mixed Brigade 1st Army 6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment Defending units: 33rd Chinese Corps 34th Chinese Corps 43rd Chinese Corps 61st Chinese Corps 96th Chinese Corps 7th Group Army -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Changsha (82,52) Allied Deliberate attack Attacking force 138025 troops, 619 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3589 Defending force 43299 troops, 358 guns, 98 vehicles, Assault Value = 1214 Allied adjusted assault: 2619 Japanese adjusted defense: 2175 Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 3059 casualties reported Squads: 5 destroyed, 207 disabled Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 74 disabled Engineers: 7 destroyed, 31 disabled Allied ground losses: 6042 casualties reported Squads: 87 destroyed, 604 disabled Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 56 disabled Engineers: 4 destroyed, 23 disabled Guns lost 38 (2 destroyed, 36 disabled) Assaulting units: 26th Chinese Corps 3rd New Chinese Corps 58th Chinese Corps 99th Chinese Corps 79th Chinese Corps 37th Chinese Corps 18th Chinese Corps 10th Chinese Corps 53rd Chinese Corps 74th Chinese Corps 73rd Chinese Corps 20th Chinese Corps 87th Chinese Corps 5th Construction Regiment 27th Group Army 9th War Area 19th Group Army 29th Group Army 17th Chinese Base Force Defending units: 40th Division 39th Division 3rd Division 8th Ind Engineer Regiment 11th Army 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment 52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At least Ryujo is confirmed going down fro these 13 A6M2 listed here. [image]local://upfiles/37283/EBBDFAC0F6CC4743BEE4487908F2BD33.jpg[/image]

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 3:30:01 PM)
Jan 5, 1942 DEI: This was a decent turn for the Allies except for one thing. I'll get to that soon. The USN CAs get to Singers and plaster Mersing and a few IJN DDs on the way. The P-35s on LR CAP harass the attackers and the flak pounds away, and out of 50+ Netties striking today, no hits are registered!! [&o] A few USN DDs also go down, and the CAs meant to hit the KB if it had continued on it's progress South of the Celebes instead got nailed by the KB air wings when the KB turns and heads the WNW. Luckily only one DD is sunk and the CAs can flank out of danger tomorrow most likely. Tomorrow may be more fireworks as Enterprise still slinks across toward Singers. The bad is that only 5 Wildcats came up for a strike today and the ships can't flank all of the way to Singers. I sent a complicated rescue mission of bombardments and fuel relief toward them for the 5th. Fingers crossed. PACIFIC: Part of the KB showed up in the North, near Amchitka. It looks like the two that were at Wake. I'd like to find out which. Is this the small ones? (Hiryu and Soryu?) The slow one? (Kaga plus one?). Or the good ones (Shokaku and Zuikaku)? The only one I know it's not is Akagi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 5, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Tioman Island at 52,84, Range 9,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Tokitsukaze, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Suzukaze DD Inazuma, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Allied Ships CA Northampton CA Houston CA Chester CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 1 CA San Francisco DD Craven DD Gridley DD McCall DD Dunlap DD Fanning Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Donggala at 68,97, Range 12,000 Yards Japanese Ships CVL Zuiho CVE Hosho CVE Taiyo CS Chiyoda CL Yubari, Shell hits 1 DD Arashio DD Akikaze DD Fuyo DD Yugao Allied Ships CA Portland CA Chicago DD Porter DD MacDonough DD Dewey DD Hull Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Tandjoengpinang at 51,86, Range 11,000 Yards Japanese Ships CL Kinu, Shell hits 1 TB Chidori, Shell hits 1, on fire TB Manazuru TB Hatsukari TB Tomozuru, Shell hits 1 TB Kiji TB Kamo Allied Ships CL Honolulu CL Boise, Shell hits 1 CL Phoenix, Shell hits 3 Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 51,82, Range 12,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Tokitsukaze, Shell hits 16, and is sunk Allied Ships CA Northampton CA Houston CA Chester CA Minneapolis CA San Francisco DD Craven DD Gridley DD McCall DD Dunlap DD Fanning Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 51,82, Range 10,000 Yards Japanese Ships AMC Saigon Maru, Shell hits 10, and is sunk xAK Gosei Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk Allied Ships CA Northampton CA Houston CA Chester CA Minneapolis CA San Francisco DD Craven DD Gridley DD McCall DD Dunlap DD Fanning Japanese ground losses: 973 casualties reported Squads: 11 destroyed, 12 disabled Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 21 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled Guns lost 45 (39 destroyed, 6 disabled) Vehicles lost 20 (20 destroyed, 0 disabled) Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Donggala at 69,96, Range 11,000 Yards Japanese Ships CA Maya CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 3 DD Ikazuchi, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Asagao, Shell hits 1 DD Karukaya, Shell hits 2 Allied Ships CA Portland, Shell hits 4, on fire CA Chicago, Shell hits 2, on fire DD Porter DD MacDonough DD Dewey DD Hull Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Donggala at 69,96, Range 12,000 Yards Japanese Ships CA Maya CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 1 DD Ikazuchi, on fire DD Asagao DD Karukaya Allied Ships CA Portland, heavy fires CA Chicago, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Porter DD MacDonough DD Dewey DD Hull Improved night sighting under 89% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Naval bombardment of Mersing at 51,82 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses F1M2 Pete: 8 damaged F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed on ground Ki-27b Nate: 5 damaged Ki-27b Nate: 3 destroyed on ground Allied Ships CA San Francisco CA Chester CA Houston CA Northampton Japanese ground losses: 426 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 43 disabled Engineers: 2 destroyed, 10 disabled Guns lost 22 (5 destroyed, 17 disabled) Vehicles lost 12 (6 destroyed, 6 disabled) Airbase hits 5 Airbase supply hits 13 Runway hits 60 CA San Francisco firing at Mersing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Tandjoengselor at 69,95, Range 18,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Sawakaze, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Yukaze DD Numakaze, Shell hits 1, on fire Allied Ships DD Porter, Shell hits 30, and is sunk Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Tioman Island at 51,83, Range 22,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Shinonome, Shell hits 1 DD Uranami, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Satsuki, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage Allied Ships CA Northampton CA Houston CA Chester, Shell hits 1 CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 1 CA San Francisco DD Craven DD Gridley DD McCall DD Dunlap, Shell hits 1 DD Fanning, Shell hits 1, on fire Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Sandakan at 71,88 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-21-IIa Sally x 7 Ki-27b Nate x 14 Allied aircraft F4F-3A Wildcat x 6 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 damaged No Allied losses Allied Ships CV Enterprise Aircraft Attacking: 7 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 5000 feet * Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 50,84 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft G3M2 Nell x 21 G4M1 Betty x 9 Ki-27b Nate x 29 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 28 Allied aircraft P-35A x 6 Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 5 damaged G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-35A: 1 destroyed Allied Ships CA Northampton DD Fanning, on fire CA Minneapolis CA Chester DD Craven Aircraft Attacking: 21 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp 22 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 22000 feet 9 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp 8 x Ki-27b Nate sweeping at 22000 feet * CAP engaged: 35th PG/34th PS with P-35A (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling) 2 plane(s) intercepting now. Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 26000. Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kolaka at 67,107 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 7 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 30 B5N2 Kate x 35 D3A1 Val x 59 Japanese aircraft losses B5N2 Kate: 4 damaged D3A1 Val: 6 damaged Allied Ships CA Astoria, Bomb hits 2 CA Louisville, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire DD Monaghan DD Mahan DD Drayton DD Dale, Bomb hits 1, on fire Aircraft Attacking: 9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kolaka at 67,107 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 7 minutes Japanese aircraft B5N2 Kate x 15 Japanese aircraft losses B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged Allied Ships CA Louisville, on fire DD Drayton, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk CA Astoria DD Monaghan Aircraft Attacking: 15 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the map. Enterprise is hugging the Borneo coast but will aim to head out into the area somewhere between Miri and Saigon. The cruisers from Singers will be active again, heading toward Palembang this time! [:)] [image]local://upfiles/37283/3291E749CA374684932EB70E97167816.jpg[/image]

BBfanboy -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 5:49:31 PM)
Thoroughly entertaining stuff! A new script that has not been done before! Many thanks for sharing with us! [&o][sm=00000613.gif]

Encircled -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 6:47:04 PM)
If you'd have pulled it off, then the best he could have managed would have been a historical perimeter. He's still lost some valuable ships, and all those oil hits are a massive positive.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 8:41:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Encircled If you'd have pulled it off, then the best he could have managed would have been a historical perimeter. He's still lost some valuable ships, and all those oil hits are a massive positive. Interesting you say that. I'm curious to see if he pushes forward after the DEI. There is one thing that could cause some troubles. All of the Malaya troops made it to Singers, and I've replaced two generals for the major Indian divisions so far. I'm thinking of replacing Percival and a few more. I know it won't last forever, but a healthy Singers would be a difficult thorn at the core of the Empire. I've prepared OZ and India as much as I can for the next stage. VP harvesting in OZ will hard to stop, but I hope the sub trail shadowing the KB could be disconcerting at least! I'm a few fish away from things equalising a bit. [:)]

Encircled -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 9:00:25 PM)
I wouldn't count on it, In my current game I've had pretty much every sub following the KB around for a year with one hit to show for it. Still, its better than none! [:)]

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 9:59:23 PM)
I wouldn't replace Percival. Too many PPs. Way too many. Leaders in HQ's don't seem to make much difference for nearly everything.

witpqs -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 10:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I wouldn't replace Percival. Too many PPs. Way too many. Leaders in HQ's don't seem to make much difference for nearly everything. I think they make a pretty big difference, but Percival costs too much to replace at that point in the game. I suppose that's by design. You need those PP for other things, including commanders who will be in play longer.

Canoerebel -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/14/2017 10:12:41 PM)
It's an interesting question, isn't it? Pay precious PPs to change Percival in hopes that the troops can hold longer under a new leader. When an experienced player is involved, I think it's a call to make shortly before Singers comes under attack...and more by feel than by certainty. Are the Allies already holding Singers longer and more strongly than expected? Has the Japanese player already stubbed his toe? Are the Japanese units rather beat up and advancing in disarray? Under very limited circumstance, I might replace Percival. (I did so in an early game.) But as a general rule I agree that the Political Point cost is too high for a return that's modest, at best.

Yakface -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 2:05:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Encircled If you'd have pulled it off, then the best he could have managed would have been a historical perimeter. He's still lost some valuable ships, and all those oil hits are a massive positive. Interesting you say that. I'm curious to see if he pushes forward after the DEI. There is one thing that could cause some troubles. All of the Malaya troops made it to Singers, and I've replaced two generals for the major Indian divisions so far. I'm thinking of replacing Percival and a few more. I know it won't last forever, but a healthy Singers would be a difficult thorn at the core of the Empire. I've prepared OZ and India as much as I can for the next stage. VP harvesting in OZ will hard to stop, but I hope the sub trail shadowing the KB could be disconcerting at least! I'm a few fish away from things equalising a bit. [:)] It is also worth disbanding an Indian Brigade (one with Indian 42 squads) at Delhi. With a the squads you will already have produced you will be able to upgrade your two Indian Divisions at Singers (you will need to break them down into thirds to be able to do so). The added firepower makes a very noticeable difference to the casualties Japan takes each attack. Supplies are an issue (I always ship in to Singers). I also turn on replacements for the Indian units and Australians. The extra time gained by a more robust defence IMO is worth it. Only worth it if you managed to get everything back to Singers - otherwise it is throwing good troops after bad.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 2:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I wouldn't replace Percival. Too many PPs. Way too many. Leaders in HQ's don't seem to make much difference for nearly everything. Interesting. It feels to me like there isn't much to spend on right now, although I know I'll be short forever. In this game I won't be doing much offensively for a while, and spending PPs to get Singers to hold even a month longer, causing more damage to IJA troops could be very worth it considering the invasion bonus. Once that ends I'll (usually) have some wanting about his prep for targets, and so know if something big s coming. quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel It's an interesting question, isn't it? Pay precious PPs to change Percival in hopes that the troops can hold longer under a new leader. When an experienced player is involved, I think it's a call to make shortly before Singers comes under attack...and more by feel than by certainty. Are the Allies already holding Singers longer and more strongly than expected? Has the Japanese player already stubbed his toe? Are the Japanese units rather beat up and advancing in disarray? Under very limited circumstance, I might replace Percival. (I did so in an early game.) But as a general rule I agree that the Political Point cost is too high for a return that's modest, at best. I agree it can be worth it, but wouldn't you want those troops to be in good shape, with decent morale, for the river crossing if you're going to spend the points at all? Seems like the most critical moment is the first step over the water for the IJA.

Canoerebel -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 2:11:55 PM)
That's what I meant: deciding whether to make the change at the point just before the Japanese army crosses to shock attack. That's when you'll get maximum benefit and have the most knowledge as to whether it might be worth it.

Encircled -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 2:47:59 PM)
What is it, three days worth of PPs? If you've got both Indian Divs combined in Singapore, might be worth it. I'm not sure I'd risk replacements and equipment going in though, you are very short of everything for a while yet. I'd hold off with those until you know which is more threatened, India or Oz

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 3:59:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I wouldn't replace Percival. Too many PPs. Way too many. Leaders in HQ's don't seem to make much difference for nearly everything. Interesting. It feels to me like there isn't much to spend on right now, although I know I'll be short forever. In this game I won't be doing much offensively for a while, and spending PPs to get Singers to hold even a month longer, causing more damage to IJA troops could be very worth it considering the invasion bonus. Once that ends I'll (usually) have some wanting about his prep for targets, and so know if something big s coming. quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel It's an interesting question, isn't it? Pay precious PPs to change Percival in hopes that the troops can hold longer under a new leader. When an experienced player is involved, I think it's a call to make shortly before Singers comes under attack...and more by feel than by certainty. Are the Allies already holding Singers longer and more strongly than expected? Has the Japanese player already stubbed his toe? Are the Japanese units rather beat up and advancing in disarray? Under very limited circumstance, I might replace Percival. (I did so in an early game.) But as a general rule I agree that the Political Point cost is too high for a return that's modest, at best. I agree it can be worth it, but wouldn't you want those troops to be in good shape, with decent morale, for the river crossing if you're going to spend the points at all? Seems like the most critical moment is the first step over the water for the IJA. I'd rather replace the commanders in the units. That would have a more direct effect than the HQ commander, who arguably only has a chance (my understanding is not complete because I've written it off as "probably doesn't matter, especially for hundreds of PPs") to affect the outcome of combats whereas individual unit commanders always impact the AV of their respective unit in combat.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 4:07:54 PM)
Jan 6, 1942 DEI: This is the turn where I felt it. The kick to the gut of really having lost something critical and irretrievable that this game provides so accurately at times. The Enterprise, the lucky lady ... usually, but not today. Jintsu and a few DDs hit the Marblehead and I think all might be well. The rear covering DDs get into the action as well. Then the critical blow. Jintsu and company do make it through. Two shots career into Enterprise that seemed to push her over the edge to cease flight ops. Later, my bombardments didn't all reach Miri, and the Enterprise was just still in range. Strike after strike hit DDs, the Achilles, other combat and decoy ships in the area, but finally, in th last strikes, in the afternoon, after storms had cleared, Vals found the Enterprise through a hole in the clearing clouds. Vals, those slow, ungainly beasts, swooped down like Frigate birds and landed one, two, then three 250kg bombs, and the fires led to a fuel storage explosion. The klaxon sounded. Abandon ship. Cassein and Downes pulled up alongside and dutifully took off survivors, held position as more Kates, then Jakes roared in. Men were saved, but not the old lady this time. The war had taken a dark turn. All of this promise, and now the Allies were on the run. In other battles around Palembang the Allies mostly got the better of it, but an isolated nettie strike got through the CAP to hit CA Australia with two fish. These CAs are so brittle. She went under quickly. Palembang itself was pounded by three separate TFs and the 4Es. Tomorrow they will continue on the oil and a few other bombers from Palembang will work on the ports where a reported 85 (!!) [X(] ships are sitting in harbour. More of the IJN is swooping in. While the loss of not one, but two, fleet CVs cannot be balanced by any of the gains so far here, there are glimmers that the IJ will take some time to recover. Another 4-5 DDs are hit hard or sunk, and about the same number of TBs go down with one CL. Quite a few merchants are hit and burning in port. If we can dent the Palembang oil it would improve the balance just slightly, but there is another thing happening in game that might just be more likely to turn things back to even for the Allies. PACIFIC: Up North the IJN CVs show themselves again, running up near Amchitka. Unseen on the horizon, about 18 hexes away, are not one, but two USN CVs. Yorktown joined Saratoga today, trailing an ASW TF and two fast oilers. Warspite just left Seattle and is on a path to join. The USN will head south and West, just out of Jake range should the IJN move East. I'm wary, but interested. There is an extra Marine fighter group and an extra SBD group on the CVs, but of course pilots are somewhat raw and the Devastators short legged and slow. I need to know which IJN CVs are here. If it's the small ones, this would be an opportunity. Shokaku ad Zuikakau would be a different story. Very wary of striking against an experienced IJN on even terms, but I've shown so far I'm willing to try anything. Do I roll the dice again? [;)][X(] CHINA: A redistribution of Chinese troops from Changsha should allow them to heal disabled in rest mode outside of the occupied city. All else is quiet. The AVG waits. BURMA: Pegu falls. I've evacuated Rangoon without a fight. The Burma division is collecting at Myitkyina. Other troops will head to Lashio to join a Chinese Corps protecting the mountain approaches. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jan 6, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 51,82, Range 8,000 Yards Japanese Ships PB Chosa Maru, Shell hits 26, and is sunk PB Eiko Maru, Shell hits 23, and is sunk Allied Ships CL Honolulu CL Boise CL Phoenix Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Banggi at 69,85, Range 7,000 Yards Japanese Ships CL Jintsu, Shell hits 1 DD Uzuki DD Yuzuki DD Matsukaze DD Asanagi DD Nokaze, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage Allied Ships DD Shaw, Shell hits 21, and is sunk DD John D. Ford Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 48,91, Range 7,000 Yards Japanese Ships TB Kasasagi TB Hiyodori, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage TB Hato Allied Ships CA Northampton CA Houston DD Craven DD Gridley DD McCall Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Jesselton at 68,85, Range 8,000 Yards Japanese Ships CL Jintsu DD Uzuki DD Yuzuki DD Matsukaze DD Asanagi DD Nokaze, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage Allied Ships DD John D. Ford, Shell hits 1 Improved night sighting under 82% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 51,82, Range 8,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Shinonome DD Uranami, Shell hits 6, and is sunk Allied Ships CL Honolulu CL Boise CL Phoenix Improved night sighting under 75% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 48,91, Range 7,000 Yards Japanese Ships CL Kinu, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage TB Manazuru, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage TB Hatsukari, Shell hits 1 TB Tomozuru, Shell hits 5, and is sunk TB Kiji Allied Ships CA Australia, Shell hits 1 CL Perth, Shell hits 1 CL Mauritius, Shell hits 1 DD Jarvis DD Banckert Improved night sighting under 75% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 48,91, Range 8,000 Yards Japanese Ships TB Kasasagi, Shell hits 5, and is sunk Allied Ships CA Northampton CA Houston DD Craven DD Gridley DD McCall Improved night sighting under 75% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 48,91, Range 8,000 Yards Japanese Ships CL Kinu, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage TB Manazuru, Shell hits 3, and is sunk TB Hatsukari, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage TB Kiji Allied Ships CA Australia, Shell hits 1, on fire CL Perth CL Mauritius, Shell hits 1 DD Jarvis DD Banckert Improved night sighting under 75% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Palembang at 48,91, Range 8,000 Yards Japanese Ships TB Chidori, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage TB Kamo, Shell hits 1 Allied Ships CA Northampton, Shell hits 1 CA Houston, Shell hits 1 DD Craven DD Gridley DD McCall Improved night sighting under 75% moonlight -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Naval bombardment of Mersing at 51,82 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses F1M2 Pete: 7 damaged F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed on ground Ki-27b Nate: 1 damaged Japanese Ships xAK Tokiwa Maru, Shell hits 1 Allied Ships CL Phoenix CL Boise CL Honolulu Japanese ground losses: 256 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 20 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled) Airbase hits 3 Airbase supply hits 3 Runway hits 12 SOC-1 Seagull acting as spotter for CL Phoenix -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Naval bombardment of Palembang at 48,91 Japanese aircraft no flights Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 3 damaged Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 damaged Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged Japanese Ships xAK Mogamigawa Maru, Shell hits 1 Allied Ships CL Mauritius Japanese ground losses: 128 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Airbase hits 4 Runway hits 6 Walrus II acting

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 4:10:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Encircled What is it, three days worth of PPs? If you've got both Indian Divs combined in Singapore, might be worth it. I'm not sure I'd risk replacements and equipment going in though, you are very short of everything for a while yet. I'd hold off with those until you know which is more threatened, India or Oz Yep. I agree. Replacements all turned off here. I think he's more like 5-6 days worth depending on who you buy to replace him, but I'd have to check.

mind_messing -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 4:14:27 PM)
quote: It was odd to come back to a comment from mindmessing suggesting I'd stepped too far, that this was the wrong strategy, letting me know how I could have got "clean away" if I'd played this differently. I feel it's important to mention a few things I'd decided about playing the Allies. I should clarify that my gripe wasn't that it was an unsound strategic move - it isn't. It's how the Allies should be played in my view. My feeling was that the tactical execution was what let you down - the Makassar straits were the key factor - you didn't have the sea room to dance around the IJN surface task forces. If you had your heart set on fighting in the DEI, doing it in a region where you've the room to do high speed runs in several directions would have been a much better choice. The overarching thought I've had reading has been "Why the DEI?". If the KB ties itself down at PH for 10 days, the Home Islands are ripe for plundering VP's, and there's oodles of searoom out there. Bombs falling on industrial centres in 1941 is likely to have a much greater strategic impact on Lowpe's planning than picking off amphib TF's in CENTPAC.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 4:14:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I wouldn't replace Percival. Too many PPs. Way too many. Leaders in HQ's don't seem to make much difference for nearly everything. Interesting. It feels to me like there isn't much to spend on right now, although I know I'll be short forever. In this game I won't be doing much offensively for a while, and spending PPs to get Singers to hold even a month longer, causing more damage to IJA troops could be very worth it considering the invasion bonus. Once that ends I'll (usually) have some wanting about his prep for targets, and so know if something big s coming. quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel It's an interesting question, isn't it? Pay precious PPs to change Percival in hopes that the troops can hold longer under a new leader. When an experienced player is involved, I think it's a call to make shortly before Singers comes under attack...and more by feel than by certainty. Are the Allies already holding Singers longer and more strongly than expected? Has the Japanese player already stubbed his toe? Are the Japanese units rather beat up and advancing in disarray? Under very limited circumstance, I might replace Percival. (I did so in an early game.) But as a general rule I agree that the Political Point cost is too high for a return that's modest, at best. I agree it can be worth it, but wouldn't you want those troops to be in good shape, with decent morale, for the river crossing if you're going to spend the points at all? Seems like the most critical moment is the first step over the water for the IJA. I'd rather replace the commanders in the units. That would have a more direct effect than the HQ commander, who arguably only has a chance (my understanding is not complete because I've written it off as "probably doesn't matter, especially for hundreds of PPs") to affect the outcome of combats whereas individual unit commanders always impact the AV of their respective unit in combat. Got it. Yeah, I've already gotten the two Indian IDs replaced, and looking to do the same to the Aussie brigades. Then I'll see how I feel about the others. Everyone is bad in these units. Not one even decent commander, which is kind of amazing.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 4:32:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: It was odd to come back to a comment from mindmessing suggesting I'd stepped too far, that this was the wrong strategy, letting me know how I could have got "clean away" if I'd played this differently. I feel it's important to mention a few things I'd decided about playing the Allies. I should clarify that my gripe wasn't that it was an unsound strategic move - it isn't. It's how the Allies should be played in my view. My feeling was that the tactical execution was what let you down - the Makassar straits were the key factor - you didn't have the sea room to dance around the IJN surface task forces. If you had your heart set on fighting in the DEI, doing it in a region where you've the room to do high speed runs in several directions would have been a much better choice. The overarching thought I've had reading has been "Why the DEI?". If the KB ties itself down at PH for 10 days, the Home Islands are ripe for plundering VP's, and there's oodles of searoom out there. Bombs falling on industrial centres in 1941 is likely to have a much greater strategic impact on Lowpe's planning than picking off amphib TF's in CENTPAC. I hear you, but those targets are out of range. The oilers, (funny it's the oilers, as that's kind of the idea in this game for me, that it's the logistics, both sides, that I'd like to highlight), but the oilers are too slow and vulnerable to get into range to help at that point. I had one out there, but did the math, and it couldn't have gotten to a place that would have let Lexington, and especially not Lex and Enterprise, make it to the HI and back. The KB could have simply turned North after the strike, even if we did have fuel in place, and block the retreat. In hindsight heading directly to the DEI would have been even better. I would have had a chance to slow to approach to a few targets. Getting the USN CAs and CLs over there though took a while, and I didn't want to go in without those. The goals were to hit the oil, hit the invasions if possible, and slow the process until the KB arrived. I also realised later that surface battles, even ones where we didn't come out completely on top, could set the IJN back for later second tier invasions in OZ or India. My difficulty was letting Force Z really be expendable. I thought I felt they were, but when it came time to actually save them I tried to do too much. One turn of getting back on Jan 2nd or 3rd I believe would have gotten the CVs to a safe area near the Celebes and Macassar shielded by four ammo rich SCTFs and out of range of the BBs. I screwed the pooch on that turn, mostly because I didn't have a clear view of everything that was coming and trusted my air search too fully. I gambled, and lost big. If I play that turn again, I sink Ryujo most likely (as happened anyway that day anyway), maybe a few more CAs or CVL/CVE, and kept surface forces mostly intact, but likely I would have lost PoW. Now I'd happily return to that choice and make the right one. Hindsight is a bitch. [:)][:(]

mind_messing -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 4:49:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: It was odd to come back to a comment from mindmessing suggesting I'd stepped too far, that this was the wrong strategy, letting me know how I could have got "clean away" if I'd played this differently. I feel it's important to mention a few things I'd decided about playing the Allies. I should clarify that my gripe wasn't that it was an unsound strategic move - it isn't. It's how the Allies should be played in my view. My feeling was that the tactical execution was what let you down - the Makassar straits were the key factor - you didn't have the sea room to dance around the IJN surface task forces. If you had your heart set on fighting in the DEI, doing it in a region where you've the room to do high speed runs in several directions would have been a much better choice. The overarching thought I've had reading has been "Why the DEI?". If the KB ties itself down at PH for 10 days, the Home Islands are ripe for plundering VP's, and there's oodles of searoom out there. Bombs falling on industrial centres in 1941 is likely to have a much greater strategic impact on Lowpe's planning than picking off amphib TF's in CENTPAC. I hear you, but those targets are out of range. The oilers, (funny it's the oilers, as that's kind of the idea in this game for me, that it's the logistics, both sides, that I'd like to highlight), but the oilers are two slow and vulnerable to get into range to help at that point. I had one out there, but did the math, and it couldn't have gotten to a place that would have let Lexington, and especially not Lex and Enterprise, make it to the HI and back. The KB could have simply turned North after the strike, even if we did have fuel in place, and block the retreat. In hindsight heading directly to the DEI would have been even better. I would have had a chance to slow to approach to a few targets. Getting the USN CAs and CLs over there though took a while, and I didn't want to go in without those. My difficulty was letting Force Z really be expendable. I thought I felt they were, but when it came time to actually save them I tried to do too much. One turn of getting back on Jan 2nd or 3rd I believe would have gotten the CVs to a safe area near the Celebes and Macassar shielded by four ammo rich SCTFs and out of range of the BBs. I screwed the pooch on that turn, mostly because I didn't have a clear view of everything that was coming and trusted my air search too fully. I gambled, and lost big. If I play that turn again, I sink Ryujo most likely (as happened anyway that day anyway), maybe a few more CAs or CVL/CVE, and kept surface forces mostly intact, but likely I would have lost PoW. Now I'd happily return to that choice and make the right one. Hindsight is a bitch. [:)][:(] We'll agree to disagree regarding the HI being out of range - even if there's no dedicated AO ships, there's plenty of time for fuel-laden xAK's from the West Coast to position themselves. The fear of the KB turning north from PH and barring the door is rational, but the KB is as fuel-limited as you are, and there's a lot of open ocean for the KB to search just when the demand for it is highest. I suppose I can't really fault you for discounting it. It is a high risk move, but the merits of it for me lies in the fact that it's a move that demands an immediate Japanese response.

ny59giants -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 6:05:36 PM)
NoPac and weather - Your other opponent will have a major influence on what goes on up here. I had 2 CV and CVL NOT get hit by KB vs John 3rd with them only 4 hexes away. [:D] I would suggest that you take time each turn up north just clicking on hexes to determine if there are major weather fronts moving through. It happens a lot and Mr Blizzard has been a friend of mine.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/15/2017 8:06:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: It was odd to come back to a comment from mindmessing suggesting I'd stepped too far, that this was the wrong strategy, letting me know how I could have got "clean away" if I'd played this differently. I feel it's important to mention a few things I'd decided about playing the Allies. I should clarify that my gripe wasn't that it was an unsound strategic move - it isn't. It's how the Allies should be played in my view. My feeling was that the tactical execution was what let you down - the Makassar straits were the key factor - you didn't have the sea room to dance around the IJN surface task forces. If you had your heart set on fighting in the DEI, doing it in a region where you've the room to do high speed runs in several directions would have been a much better choice. The overarching thought I've had reading has been "Why the DEI?". If the KB ties itself down at PH for 10 days, the Home Islands are ripe for plundering VP's, and there's oodles of searoom out there. Bombs falling on industrial centres in 1941 is likely to have a much greater strategic impact on Lowpe's planning than picking off amphib TF's in CENTPAC. I hear you, but those targets are out of range. The oilers, (funny it's the oilers, as that's kind of the idea in this game for me, that it's the logistics, both sides, that I'd like to highlight), but the oilers are two slow and vulnerable to get into range to help at that point. I had one out there, but did the math, and it couldn't have gotten to a place that would have let Lexington, and especially not Lex and Enterprise, make it to the HI and back. The KB could have simply turned North after the strike, even if we did have fuel in place, and block the retreat. In hindsight heading directly to the DEI would have been even better. I would have had a chance to slow to approach to a few targets. Getting the USN CAs and CLs over there though took a while, and I didn't want to go in without those. My difficulty was letting Force Z really be expendable. I thought I felt they were, but when it came time to actually save them I tried to do too much. One turn of getting back on Jan 2nd or 3rd I believe would have gotten the CVs to a safe area near the Celebes and Macassar shielded by four ammo rich SCTFs and out of range of the BBs. I screwed the pooch on that turn, mostly because I didn't have a clear view of everything that was coming and trusted my air search too fully. I gambled, and lost big. If I play that turn again, I sink Ryujo most likely (as happened anyway that day anyway), maybe a few more CAs or CVL/CVE, and kept surface forces mostly intact, but likely I would have lost PoW. Now I'd happily return to that choice and make the right one. Hindsight is a bitch. [:)][:(] We'll agree to disagree regarding the HI being out of range - even if there's no dedicated AO ships, there's plenty of time for fuel-laden xAK's from the West Coast to position themselves. The fear of the KB turning north from PH and barring the door is rational, but the KB is as fuel-limited as you are, and there's a lot of open ocean for the KB to search just when the demand for it is highest. I suppose I can't really fault you for discounting it. It is a high risk move, but the merits of it for me lies in the fact that it's a move that demands an immediate Japanese response. The KB has oilers aplenty though, and he kept his close enough to count. This was very early stuff. As I say, I did send a slow AO, the Sepulga, but it was NE of Midway still by Dec 14. The KB set off from PH and headed home the 14th, was near Midway by the 17th. The Lex and Enterprise had joined up by the 14th but had low fuel and had to head South. Sepulga wasn't in range, and the KB was coming from that direction. In fact if the CVs had headed North they would't have been fueled until around the 20th. By that time the KB would be around Wake. If we went immediately we would have hit some shipping up there by at least the time the KB got to Truk. So the mission would be scraped and the KB in great position to support So Pac and DEI. The USN would retreat to protect No Pac and wait. So you're right in a sense. This would have been MUCH better considering what did happen. But I'm glad to be playing this game and not that one! [;)]

Lokasenna -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/16/2017 12:13:34 AM)
The USN has much larger fuel bunkers on their ships. The CVs alone have Endurance values north of 10K. I didn't need oilers for my trip to Japan in April '42, not like Japan needs oilers if they want to hang around Hawaii at all.

obvert -> RE: Beans, Bullets and Black Oil :: obvert (A) vs Lowpe (J) (5/16/2017 5:31:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna The USN has much larger fuel bunkers on their ships. The CVs alone have Endurance values north of 10K. I didn't need oilers for my trip to Japan in April '42, not like Japan needs oilers if they want to hang around Hawaii at all. Sure. When did you do that though? Mind messing is saying that I should have gone to the HI instead of to the DEI. Although I'd have loved to hit some industry in the Home Islands, it just wasn't feasible at this point in game with the fuel the CVs begin with and the available mobile replenishment options in the first two weeks of the war.

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